Oleg Tsaryev: “Ukraine is a historic anti-Russian project”



Interview by Oleg Kusov, exclusively to Vestnik Kavkaza

Interesting guests are always welcome at Vestnik Kavkaza. Oleg Kusov gives all guests in the studio an opportunity to speak. These conversations are not only about the Caucasus. A half-hour conversation over tea passes quickly. The section "Take My Word" records conversations in video, audio and text formats. The guest of Vestnik Kavkaza today is the head of the Parliament of the Union of the People's Republics, Oleg Tsarev.

- Good afternoon, Oleg. You know, I probably should not use the word "Novorossia", because its present status is not yet quite understood. I know that Novorossia is historically more than the Donbass. It is the south of modern Ukraine. In Soviet times the word was welcome. What is the meaning of this term today?

- On the one hand, Novorossia is the state territory formed through the signing of the act of declaration between the Lugansk and Donetsk National Republics. On the one hand, Novorossia includes more than two regions of Ukraine. It is at least 8 areas, and if we include the Kirovograd region, which historically belonged to Novorossiysk province, then it has even more areas. But Novorossia is not just a state, it is a symbol. It symbolizes that Russia has risen from its knees. It is a symbol of the Russian people's connection disconnected. Novorossia is, of course, a dream, the dream of a new Russia, a new life, a state in which there is democracy, friendship among peoples, and no oligarchs. Novorossia is the best part of Russia.

- Speaking about the fact that Novorossia is not only the Donbass: the populations of Kherson and Odessa have not yet supported Novorossia, have they?

- They have supported it, despite the fact that they were shot, burned, and thrown into prison. In spite of the violence, people took to the streets, stating their point of view. They could not be defeated.

- Oleg, Donbass is undergoing a large-scale armed conflict. We, Vestnik Kavkaza, can draw an analogy with the Caucasian conflicts. There are a lot of parallels. In particular, the conflict between two, strange as it may sound, involves democratic principles: self-determination and the right to territorial integrity. But judging from the Caucasus conflict, it threatens bloodshed and prolonged military action. Do you think there is a danger that the conflict in the Donbass, in Novorossia, will continue for years?

- I believe that here we must look for a compromise. The shorter the time we spend on negotiatons, the more, unfortunately, blood will be shed, the more lives will be taken as payment for this. I believe that the scenario that was chosen is optimal in terms of saving lives. After the peace agreement, which is currently not fully satisfied, but dramatically reduced the number of victims - it is long-term scenario, but it will save more people. The more we move in the direction of Kiev now, the clearer it is that the militias are motivated to fight and the more resistance we would face. We must understand that on the way cities, villages and infrastructure would be destroyed and people would be killed. All this will need to be rebuilt. I think the scenario that has been chosen implies that now there will be big problems in Ukraine. As a result of these problems, regions of Ukraine will be joining Russia without war, without military action. Yes, we will have to wait until spring, but I have no doubt that it will happen.

- You predict the collapse of Ukraine in the spring, and you said this in an interview. What are your arguments? Why in the spring?

- Wherever there was fascism, there was war. Fascism is not viable without war. In order to justify the lack of freedom of speech and political freedoms and radical decline in living standards, military action is needed. Without military action, there is no enemy, and people start to speak out against the current government. The Ukrainian project in isolation from Russia is not viable. Russia is not only a common cultural space for the majority of Ukrainians. We were divided arbitrarily, and the terms "Ukrainians" and “Little Russians” were coined.  But the Russian world is big and integral. Gogol was a Russian writer. Bulgakov was a Russian writer, even though he belonged to the Kyiv intelligentsia.

- Taras Shevchenko wrote in Russian.

- Taras Shevchenko kept his personal diary in Russian. This is not only a common cultural world, but also markets, commissions, cheap energy sources and loans. Without all this, Ukraine, as a state, cannot exist. Ukraine is an anti-Russian project. It was originally conceived like this, in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, even on the level of the concepts "Ukrainian" and "Ukraine". Now this project is continuing, but in a situation of war with Russia. Ukraine will face cold and hunger, while Novorossia is recovering from a humanitarian disaster. We expect to start paying salaries this month, and children now go to school. We look forward to actively restoring enterprises. 600 businesses have been destroyed. The rest of Ukraine expects a humanitarian catastrophe: a lack of heat, the collapse of the hryvnia, suspension of production, and the delay of social payments. Given the fact that there is no external enemy, I think that given the fact that the internal contradictions remained in society, this government will be gone.

- You will be told that the EU will help.


- Neither the EU nor the United States want to or can support the existence of such a big state as Ukraine. It is necessary to directly subsidize tens of billions of dollars, which neither the United States nor the EU wants to do. It was possible to create and support artificial life, for example, in Georgia. There, quite high wages were paid directly to all employees, from foreign funds, not from the budget of Georgia. The Georgian army was not funded from the Georgian budget. Due to the high salaries of state employees, Georgia’s existence was supported. In Ukraine this is impossible, it is a very big state, and it requires a lot of money. The EU said that it was not going to help. The International Monetary Fund also issued harsh statements to Yatsenuk, statements that one should ask for less and work more. This shows that the EU does not want to pay for the life and existence of the Kiev regime.

- You used the word "fascism" in the previous answer, a terrible word, especially for us, for those who were born in the Soviet Union and whose grandfathers and fathers fought against fascism. But the Kiev propagandists, when they hear this word from you, from your colleagues, they present it in their own way. You apply this term to all the people of Ukraine who live outside of the Donbass.

- We have repeatedly stated that we do not see the people of Ukraine as enemies. Moreover, we have created the movement "South-East" and appealed to the Kiev authorities: "Let us begin negotiations, let's change the Constitution, and let’s introduce federalization. We guarantee that we will liberate all the occupied buildings and disarm. Let's agree, as we come out of this situation, because you cannot stay in a state with an anti-Russian ideology with people who consider themselves Russian in spirit. Russian is not a nationality, it is much more. Unfortunately, we have not heard a response from the government of Kiev, but we have repeatedly appealed to the region, to the local authorities, to the people of Ukraine. I want to say, going back to this topic, that the concept “Russian” is broad. In this war which we now have in Novorossia, quite a number of friends and acquaintances participate, who came from the Caucasus: from South Ossetia, Chechnya, Dagestan, there are representatives of many peoples.

- Are they all volunteers?

- Of course they are volunteers, they are not so many, but they do exist. They horrify the Ukrainian military. Russia in this war is not presented on such a scale as it was in Yugoslavia, during the fighting. Then, as I recall, only officially about two thousand volunteers from Russia were involved. In Novorossia it is less, maybe not too little, but certainly less. The presence of people from the Caucasus is a help. Russia provides humanitarian and moral support and and helps in terms of foreign policy, but the help from the people from the Caucasus, Russian, simple Russian people, will remain in the memory of generations, it will not be forgotten. Assistance at this moment is very important. With all my heart I want to thank the Russians for their help, Russians, no matter what ethnicity they are.

-  Kiev regularly states that Russian professional soldiers are fighting in Novorossia. Is Kiev right?- It is very difficult to justify the weakness of the Ukrainian military forces. I remember when our guys went on the offensive – one trap, another trap, a third trap… The world history of military conflicts didn’t know the events which happened in Novorossia. Units with a smaller number of soldiers surrounded and defeated professionally armed units which were numerous. The gap was huge. The militants were 5-10 times fewer than the Ukrainian armed groups. History didn’t know such a thing. And it should be justified. I remember that at first Kiev was shocked and kept silent; information about military plans was top secret. The mass media were forbidden from commenting on them. And later the Ukrainian authorities got a new idea that “of course we will definitely defeat the militants, but there were Russian professional soldiers who were strong and couldn’t be defeated.” I should say that nobody has even defeated the Russians. It is impossible to win fighting the Russians. We were inspired by the victories of the Great Patriotic War. We were protected not only by Soviet guns and weapons, we were protected by the memory of the deed which was committed by our fathers. And now the Russians have contributed to the myth, to the glory of Russian warriors. Everybody knows that the Russians cannot be defeated. To win, to establish a war, for 20 years the Russians have been convinced that they were not Russians, that they were Ukrainians. And finally they pitched Russians against Russians. Of course this is a civil war, in which some people are fighting for their fathers, graves, memory, history, they are more motivated. If it were a war against someone else, I’m sure we would win it much sooner.-  Kiev regularly states that Russian professional soldiers are fighting in Novorossia. Is Kiev right?

- It is very difficult to justify the weakness of the Ukrainian military forces. I remember when our guys went on the offensive – one trap, another trap, a third trap… The world history of military conflicts didn’t know the events which happened in Novorossia. Units with a smaller number of soldiers surrounded and defeated professionally armed units which were numerous. The gap was huge. The militants were 5-10 times fewer than the Ukrainian armed groups. History didn’t know such a thing. And it should be justified. I remember that at first Kiev was shocked and kept silent; information about military plans was top secret. The mass media were forbidden from commenting on them. And later the Ukrainian authorities got a new idea that “of course we will definitely defeat the militants, but there were Russian professional soldiers who were strong and couldn’t be defeated.” I should say that nobody has even defeated the Russians. It is impossible to win fighting the Russians. We were inspired by the victories of the Great Patriotic War. We were protected not only by Soviet guns and weapons, we were protected by the memory of the deed which was committed by our fathers. And now the Russians have contributed to the myth, to the glory of Russian warriors. Everybody knows that the Russians cannot be defeated. To win, to establish a war, for 20 years the Russians have been convinced that they were not Russians, that they were Ukrainians. And finally they pitched Russians against Russians. Of course this is a civil war, in which some people are fighting for their fathers, graves, memory, history, they are more motivated. If it were a war against someone else, I’m sure we would win it much sooner.

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